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CNN SATURDAY NIGHT

Could New Orleans Take Direct Hit From Hurricane Katrina?

Aired August 27, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN SATURDAY NIGHT. Heading out of the Big Easy before Hurricane Katrina's big wave. And ahead, when and the latest on where it will hit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to happen. We can't continue to beat the odds. We've beaten the odds for a long, long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: A chilling look at what happens if the worst case scenario plays out: Ground zero, New Orleans.

And the doctor told her she was obese. She didn't like it. The uproar is over how he said it. And we give you a chance to weigh in. These stories and a lot more next on CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Erica Hill from the CNN Center in Atlanta. Thanks for being with us.

Ahead this hour, hurricanes are his business. We're going to get the latest track from the expert, the Hurricane Center's Director, Max Mayfield.

Also, the mother of Michael Jackson's accuser back in the news now and losing credibility fast. But this time, not because of what she said. And will the real Martha please step forward? Is the new softer Martha the real one?

Up first for you tonight, though, our main focus of the coming days -- a roaring thundering and already deadly powerhouse of a weather system. Hurricane Katrina whirling now in the Gulf of Mexico and looking hell-bent on a Louisiana landfall.

Here's a look now at Katrina's most recent size and position. It gives you really an idea of the strength and the mass of the hurricane. Forecasters expect one more full day before it hits land in full force. Residents of New Orleans are getting out while the getting is relatively good, if not slow. Many people have no choice either at this point. The state ordered evacuations from some low lying areas.

But it's not yet mandatory for the city of New Orleans. Now this will be Katrina's second landfall, of course. The then Category I storm wrecked homes and flooded towns in the Florida Keys in Miami- Dade County on Thursday. At least seven deaths are blamed on the storm there.

So looking forward now, CNN Jacqui Jeras is tracking Katrina's every move. And Jonathan Freed is in New Orleans bracing for the storm's arrival.

Jacqui, we're going to start off with you.

JACQUI JERAS, METEOROLOGIST: Well, Erica, the storm has taken its turn now to the north and west already. And it's taken its turn for the worst, unfortunately. It's a Category III hurricane, a major hurricane with winds of 115 miles per hour. But everything that I'm seeing is leading us to believe that further intensification is taking place right now. And this will probably be a Category 4, we think, sometime tomorrow on your Sunday.

Hurricane watches have now been posted from intracoastal cities sitting all the way over to the Florida/Alabama state line. I'm expecting as the 10:00 Central Time advisory comes in, that this will likely be changed to a hurricane warning.

What's the difference? A watch means conditions are possible within 36 hours. A hurricane warning means hurricane conditions expected in 24 hours or less. So it's on its way. The turn has started. It's going to be moving over some very warm water in the Gulf of Mexico.

There are no upper level winds really in this area to blow this storm apart or knock it off. Estimation for landfall is going to be some time maybe mid dayish on Monday. And all eyes are still pointing to New Orleans at this time.

There still is some uncertainty this storm could go a little further off to the West, a little farther off to the East. So you still need to pay very close attention especially in Mississippi, also into much of southeastern Louisiana.

Bottom line with this storm is that Katrina will be a major hurricane. Official forecast winds at landfall, 145 miles per hour. But we do better with track forecasting than intensity forecasting.

Landfall on the North Gulf will be on Monday mid-day. And those rain bands are going to be moving in, we think, tomorrow afternoon with Tropical Storm force winds already arriving by tomorrow evening.

Erica, a very ominous situation. This will very likely become a deadly storm again.

HILL: Ominous indeed, Jacqui, with those reports (INAUDIBLE) even going to start just tomorrow makes -- gives people a little more incentive to get out.

So we turn now to the city of New Orleans, a city that has luckily managed to avoid a direct hit from a hurricane since the 1960s. And residents are hoping for more luck again this time, but most aren't taking any chances.

CNN's Jonathan Freed in a rapidly emptying New Orleans tonight. Jonathan, how many people are seeing leaving?

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Erica, that is really the feeling that we have here in New Orleans today. And that mood I can tell you definitely changed over the course of the day.

Well, right now, I'm standing in front of an on ramp to interstate 10. And this is the scene all over the city right now. You have on ramps that are blocked off by police cruisers lights flashing, directing people westbound on what were the eastbound lanes, trying to help everybody to get out of town.

People are making hotel and motel reservations as far away as 150 miles away. Those are booked right now.

And earlier today, we saw long lines of people filling up their cars with gas. And then gas started disappearing from stations at one point as well.

We had the usual scenes of people boarding up their homes, putting all their things together, and getting ready to get out of town -- Erica?

HILL: Very interesting stuff there. When you talked to anybody, did they seem frightened at all? Did they seem nervous that maybe this time the luck would run out for New Orleans? Or were they hopeful that they would avoid it?

FREED: Well, some people were hopeful that they would avoid it. For the most part, you had a lot of tourists who really didn't want to feel that the trip that they had planned was going to be blown up because of this storm coming this way.

But we had a number of people, Erica, come up to us earlier this evening, asking for our help, saying that they didn't understand what's called the contra flow of traffic. That's when they turn those eastbound lanes, in this case, into westbound lanes. And they were asking for our help in terms of how do you navigate the on ramps, where do they need to go. And so, there's a lot of that going on right now.

There were crowds of people standing around police officers who were blocking off lanes. Just -- they weren't panicky. They were just simply trying to find out what they needed to do to keep themselves and their families safe.

HILL: And trying to figure out where to go. And as you mentioned, up to 150 miles away, people are booking hotel rooms. Had there been any sort of directive to the people of New Orleans and a lot of these low lying areas as to where they should go or how far north or west they should be moving?

FREED: Well, at this point, I think, the people are not exactly sure where the hurricane is going to make landfall. We have the projections at this point. Generally, what they're trying to do, it's a voluntary evacuation suggestion at this point. Only those low lying areas is where it's mandatory. And the mayor of New Orleans was out. The governor of this state was out today, urging people to simply get out of the way and not to wait until the last minute.

We're still almost two days away from when it's projected this storm is going to make landfall. And they are urging people not to wait until the last minute. They're saying do it now, while you can still get gas, when you can still think about what you're doing. Get your medicine together. Take it seriously. And take it perhaps even more seriously than you have other warnings before, because the feeling is this one is coming this way.

HILL: Wait, and when you mentioned take it more seriously, of course, some of the ones that people remember when they remember these ones that have really hit New Orleans hard, we go back of course to 1969 to Camille. 256 people dead.

But the fact of the matter is, as time passes, the impact of that, unfortunately, does begin to fade. And I've been reading in some of the wire reports today, one of the other problems is that there are so many new residents to the area in New Orleans and also the environs, that it's kind of hard to impress maybe on some of those people just how serious and how important this is?

FREED: Very much so. And many people that have grown up in this area, we were talking to one woman who said she'd been living here for 30 years, she was getting out of town because she had that critical mass of knowledge and experience of living in this part of the country to know that you don't take any chances with it. You get out of town.

But the collective memory, as you've pointed out, the collective memory of any community is only as old as some of its newest residents.

And there are undoubtedly some people who perhaps are not taking it as seriously as officials would like them to take it. And there are others that there is a certain degree of an impoverished community here, people who would like to get out of town, and who may not have the means to get out of town as well. And officials are looking at accommodating them somehow realizing that some people are just going to be here regardless, Erica?

HILL: Well, hopefully, they'll be able to figure that out, as you mentioned, within the next day or so, before everything starts coming ashore.

Jonathan Freed, we appreciate it. Thanks.

FREED: Thanks.

HILL: The city of New Orleans has not felt the direct impact of a hurricane since the 1960s, since 1965 actually. It narrowly avoided certain disaster a few years later in 1969, August 17th and 18th to be exact.

And that was a Category 5 hurricane Camille. It devastated the Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama coasts. The storm created gusts of more than 200 miles per hour. We should point out here that's estimated because every piece of monitoring equipment at the time was destroyed. It brought the highest storm surge ever measured in the United States. It wiped out nearly every coastal structure from east of New Orleans, to the Florida Panhandle.

Camille killed 143 people along the Gulf Coast and nearly that many in the flooding that followed, as it moved north. Hurricane Camille and Hurricane Andrew in 1992 are considered the only Category 5 storms to hit the U.S. mainland.

And FEMA, as you may know, is the federal agency that's charged with preparing those in Katrina's path and also preparing to help deal with the massive clean-up to come. FEMA's director spoke with CNN earlier today and said anyone who underestimates the destructive power of this hurricane is making a big mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BROWN, FEMA DIRECTOR: You have about 36 hours now to understand how serious this storm is and to make your preparations to keep your family and to keep your business safe. You've got to do that now. Tomorrow and Monday's going to be too late.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Brown also told CNN he expects much of the hardest hit areas to be without electricity, without communication, and without safe ways to travel.

Louisiana's governor already warned residents that getting out of Katrina's way won't be easy, even with all highway traffic moving in the same direction.

So for the latest now on what the state is doing, Governor Kathleen Blanco joins us tonight from Baton Rouge. A busy day for you, governors. We appreciate you taking the time.

First of all, how are the evacuations going? I know they're voluntary at this point.

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO, LOUISIANA: Erica, we've had a tremendous number of people already moving out of the area, particularly the low lying area.

We are very concerned about the people in the city of New Orleans and some of the people in the region as well, who have not actually gotten the message. They went to bed last night thinking the hurricane was going to Florida. And some have just gotten busy in their day and not gotten -- you know, had any media contact, and don't even know this is happening.

So we're hoping that by tonight, that they're watching you and getting the message that it's a real threat. It's very serious. We want them to get out of town.

The storm surge could bring in 15 to 20 feet of water. They will not survive that if indeed that happens.

Now we have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best, maybe pray it away, maybe pray it a little east, a little west, but we can't count on that. We have to protect lodge -- I'm encouraging families to move.

President Bush has given us an early declaration of disaster. And that is extremely unusual for that to happen before a hurricane. It has not happened in years.

So everyone at the highest levels are extremely concerned about what could possibly happen with this Hurricane Katrina.

HILL: And that really illustrates the seriousness of the situation.

Something that our reporter Jonathan Freed just brought up with I was speaking with him a moment ago is that there are a number of people, maybe in the area, who might like to get out, but who don't have the means, and who aren't able to. What kinds of provisions are being made for some of these folks who need help getting out of the area?

BLANCO: Well, we're asking neighbors to be concerned about their neighbors. We are worried about people who have medical emergencies. We've got two medical emergency evacuation sites set up. One in Alexandria and Central Louisiana and one in Monroe in Northeast Louisiana.

We want people to help each other. I'm actually encouraging the ministers, who's flock may be showing up for services in the morning, to encourage their people say a prayer and send them home packing, and help each other get out of town. I think the mayor's also arranging for some transportation measures.

We've got to work this whole thing together.

HILL: We know that the contra flow is already in effect, went into effect earlier this afternoon out of New Orleans to some of the lower lying areas. How much can that potentially speed up these evacuations?

BLANCO: Well, it's lessened the degree of frustration. I was flying over the various sections of the interstate. And it does slow down when we caused them to veer off, or where you have these intersecting areas.

But it is not gridlock on the interstate. It is moving very nicely. There's little intensity in the downtown areas proper.

But as you move along, you know, I'm asking people to be very patient, be good, courteous drivers. Don't lose your patience. This is important. We don't want to lose you on the highway when you're trying to get safe from the hurricane.

HILL: Absolutely. The last thing you want to deal with at this time is an accident. You just want to get out of there, and get out of there safely. Governor, we appreciate your time tonight.

BLANCO: Thank you.

HILL: Well, the storm over one doctor's advice, that's our talk for you tonight up next. We've got the feud between a patient and her doctor when it comes to his warnings about her weight.

Also, dueling political protests in a tiny Texas town. We are live from Crawford, where demonstrators on both sides of the Iraq debate came out in force today.

And the domestic diva preparing to choose a sidekick. The latest on Martha Stewart, as she prepares to go prime-time with "The Apprentice." You're watching CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: In our talk tonight, when does trying to help go too far? In the case of a New Hampshire doctor, it might have been when he told one of his patients she was overweight.

Dr. Terry Bennett said her size would affect her health. And maybe you're used to hearing that, but then he went on to tell her it might even affect her love life. His patient was offended to the point of complaining to the state's board of medicine.

Earlier this week, CNN's Paula Zahn spoke to Dr. Bennett and Marilyn Wann. She's the author of the book, "Fat, So: Because You Don't Have to Apologize for your Size."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY BENNETT, DR., NEW HAMPSHIRE PHYSICIAN: She got the fairly standard speech that I give. I look people in the eye as I'm giving it. I tell them it's going to be painful. I try to gauge by their body action and their facial expression whether I've gotten their attention, kept their attention or I'm beginning to be offensive.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, did you get her attention when you said she was obese?

BENNETT: No, not really. This patient never gave me much in the way of feedback response. So, I gave her the whole story.

ZAHN: OK. Walk through the spiel with us. You gave her the whole story. That included telling her that her husband, who is also obese, could die and then what?

BENNETT: That at every step of the way, women outlive men. So that by the time you get to middle age, there are far fewer men than women on the face of the planet and certainly in the United States. And so, if her husband predeceases her, that there is a limited pool of people that she could become companions with, have fun with, go out with, go dancing with and so forth. We're not talking about her love life, we're talking about her social life. So in the polling information, sort of recently, acquired view of NPR and Associated Press is that if you poll middle-aged American men on what their likes and dislikes are, what do they have strong likes for and strong dislikes for? Strong dislikes, obesity is head of the list.

ZAHN: Were you a little concerned that you were crossing the line there? That is something that is very personal?

BENNETT: It's also fact-based, evidence-based medicine. And again, I'm trying to get somebody's attention who's ignored everything, who is so sensitive about the issue that she won't let me weigh her. I don't have a weight for this patient in my charts. She always demurred, we'll do it next time.

ZAHN: So, Marilyn, you've heard the doctor tell his side of the story. What is it that you have the biggest problem with in his communication with his patient?

MARILYN WANN, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO ADVANCE FAT ACCEPTANCE: Well, first, according to the facts and the data and the research, the only thing anyone can diagnose by looking at a fat person, or weighing a fat person is their own level of prejudice against fat people. And the tragic, really dangerous fact in our society today is that when a fat person goes to a medical provider like this doctor, they're very likely to have that person confuse their own prejudices with real science.

ZAHN: But let's talk about the real science here.

WANN: The real science shows that when people like me eat their veggies and exercise regularly, we're healthier than thin people who don't. And that behavior, not BMI, is really the powerful influence. And this doctor is doing a huge disservice to any patient. And really, he's not my doctor, and he shouldn't be anybody's doctor.

ZAHN: I understand that, Marilyn, but why is it irresponsible for Dr. Bennett to explain to this patient that she's at increased risk, being overweight, for diabetes, for heart disease, for strokes?

WANN: All of those risks are correlational, not causational. And when you factor in other variables, like fitness, access to medical care, stress reduction from the discrimination that fat people face, a lot of the things that are attributed to fatness could very well be due to these other causes. And the real danger for fat people is that we don't go to the doctor because our doctors are prejudiced. And we don't get care.

ZAHN: Dr. Bennett, what about that?

BENNETT: In fact, she's wrong on a number of issues.

ZAHN: Based on what Marilyn is saying, is it possible to say anything, you think, without being prejudicial?

WANN: I'll be happy to give you plenty of facts. BENNETT: The facts of the matter are that 70 percent of providers do not address the issue at all. Because it's so charged.

WANN: Good.

BENNETT: Seventy percent don't talk to their patients at all. They write "morbidly obese" on the chart, close the chart, next patient. If that's what you would like, Marilyn, that's what you're in process of doing.

WANN: I'd like you to keep your prejudices to yourself.

BENNETT: I have no prejudices, except that you should live to be old.

WANN: I don't believe you. I think I'm a better...

BENNETT: Well, I don't believe you.

WANN: Thank you, I don't need your permission to live a long, healthy life, like my beautiful, fat, 81-year-old mother.

BENNETT: And she's a very fortunate woman. My hat's off.

ZAHN: Marilyn, let's go back to this whole issue of what's legitimate for a doctor to say. Why is telling a patient who's overweight and who is obese that they should lose weight? Why is that any different than telling a smoker that they should quit smoking?

WANN: The analogy is very useful. Smoking is a behavior. Eating is a behavior. Exercise is a behavior. I think physicians should talk to thin and fat patients about those behaviors. Making judgments about a person's health outcome based on their weight is very inaccurate, according to the data.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: And that's going to lead us to our last call question for tonight. Did the doctor go too far? Give us a call, let us know what you think. The number again, 1-800-807-2620. Please tell us first name and where you're calling from.

Barreling through the Gulf Coast, Hurricane Katrina set for a second hit on the U.S. mainland. The latest on the storm's track for you is just ahead.

Also, the mother of Michael Jackson's accuser now heading back to court. And this time as a defendant. We're going to take a look at her latest legal battle in rap sheet.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Ed Lavandera in Crawford, Texas. The Iraq War sparks a clash of ideas here in what turned out to be the most intense day of protesting since Cindy Sheehan came to town. I'll have that story coming up after the break. You're watching CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: In Texas today, strong emotions over the war in Iraq, support for American troops, and the president's policies. Two rallies went out in Crawford, near President Bush's ranch. One, held by supporters of anti-war mother Cindy Sheehan. The other, by pro- Bush counter demonstrators.

Ed Lavandera has been watching it all for us. Joining us tonight live from Crawford with a report on the day's activities. And a bit of a busy day there in Crawford, Ed.

LAVANDERA: Quite a busy day. Four people arrested. We didn't see any violent confrontations to speak of, but this was hardly a typical day in this small central Texas town.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll fight for my country any day they ask me to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President won't meet Cindy, yes, he won't see you.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The winding country road leading toward President Bush's ranch turned into the battle line over the war in Iraq. Supporters of the war set up in what they call Camp Reality just across the street from what anti-war protesters call Camp Casey.

It was the most intense response to anti-war activists since Cindy Sheehan launched her protest three weeks ago. More than 1,000 people turned out for this rally. Bush supporters called Sheehan a friend of the terrorists. This picture says it all. What they think of her fits on the backside of a horse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Sheehan, get on the bus, get out of here. Texas don't want you.

(CHEERING)

HOWARD KALOOGIAN, MOVE AMERICA FORWARD: How many more American soldiers are going to die because you are giving hope and encouragement to our enemies?

LAVANDERA: Several people from both sides were arrested during protesting. Security was bolstered to handle the crowds. Close to 3,000 people poured into Crawford Saturday. The traffic and the scorching heat actually made this normally quiet road melt.

In the Cindy Sheehan camp, her supporters are celebrating what they call a growing anti-war movement just a short distance from the president's home.

CROWD: Not one more.

CINDY SHEEHAN, WAR PROTESTER: Yell it so he can hear it.

CROWD: Not one more.

LAVANDERA: Sheehan is the main attraction. She poses for pictures, signs autographs. These crowds view her as their voice to attack the president.

SHEEHAN: He doesn't even know that there are people in the country that disagree with him until we came to Crawford to ruin his vacation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Supporters of President Bush's Iraq War policy will be happy to hear that Cindy Sheehan is actually planning to leave Crawford on Wednesday. What they're probably not happy to hear about is that Cindy Sheehan promises to continue this rally and take it to Washington, D.C.

Erica?

HILL: All right, Ed, thanks. Ed Lavandera for us in Crawford, Texas.

In news across the nation for you now, the commission recommending U.S. military base closures says it will deliver its final report to the president on September 8th. President Bush can accept, reject, or recommend revisions to the report. Congress must approve or reject its -- the final plan in its entirety.

The Roman Catholic diocese of Spokane, Washington plans to appeal a federal judge's ruling that say churches and other assets are available to be sold. The judge said the assets could be used to raise money for victims of sexual abuse by parish priests. The diocese filed for bankruptcy last December.

L.A. firefighters carried out a rescue operation today. And after more than two hours, declared it a success. Four little puppies found wedged between two buildings in North Hollywood in temperatures that near 100 degrees. They'd apparently been up there for 48 hours. We're happy to report, though, all four of those sweet little guys were OK. They were taken to a city shelter. You can bet people are clamoring to adopt them now.

And you want to stay with us for the latest hurricane news, including a look at why New Orleans has more to be worried about than most cities. And just what did Martha Stewart think about prison? Maybe her new TV show. We'll have a preview.

And don't forget our last question about the doctor who told her patient she was too fat and went on to tell her some other things. Did he go too far? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620. Please make sure you tell us your first name and where you're calling from. You're watching CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: CNN is your hurricane center and headquarters. For a closer look now at Katrina's strength, location, and projected path, let's check in with meteorologist Jacqui Jeras, who spoke just a short time ago with Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center in Miami.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERAS: Well, Max, we've already seen that northwesterly turn. It looks like the hurricane is intensifying right now. How much worse is this going to get?

MAX MAYFIELD, DIR., NAT'L HURRICANE CENTER: Well, everything we see suggests that it will indeed strengthen. The air flow environment is favorable. It's actually moving over very warm water. Everything in red here is extremely warm and deep warm water.

So we think it will become a Category 4 hurricane. Could it become even stronger? There is some possibility for that to happen.

JERAS: All right, we've always talked about the nightmare scenario. What if it hits New Orleans? Put this in perspective. How serious is this?

MAYFIELD: Well, it's very serious. And it can not only cause a lot of damage, but large loss of life if people don't heed the advice of those local officials. This could be stronger than Hurricane Betsy in 1965. And I know there's been a lot of focus on New Orleans, as there should be, but we don't want to forget about Mississippi and Alabama. They're going to have a tremendous storm surge, not only near, but well out to the east to where the center of this hurricane makes landfall.

JERAS: How soon are we going to see conditions change?

MAYFIELD: Well, I think that the center will not get there until Monday, but the tropical storm force winds will very likely be arriving on the coast here sometime tomorrow evening. So you know, it's just so low lying there in Louisiana, that those roads are going to be cut off. People really have all day tonight -- all of tonight and all day tomorrow to make their preparations and evacuations, if they're told to do so.

JERAS: If you lived in Louisiana, would you be evacuating?

MAYFIELD: I certainly would if I lived in a place that did not have some high terrain. And that's much of southeast Louisiana. This has always been our greatest, you know, concern anywhere on the Gulf of Mexico.

And I think when we start talking about storm surge values, up as high as Camille, you know, that will get people's attention. We're going to very likely put up the hurricane warning later tonight.

JERAS: OK, thanks very much, Max Mayfield from the National Hurricane Center.

MAYFIELD: Thank you, Jacqui. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Well not everyone is trying to get away from Hurricane Katrina. In fact, the threatened storm is having little effect on one New Orleans institution.

CNN hurricane tracker Jeff Flock joins us now from Bourbon Street, where it appears the party, Jeff, we're hearing is just getting started.

JEFF FLOCK, HURRICANE CHASER: Well, yes, a lot of people not, Erica, listening to Max Mayfield here along Bourbon Street. We talked to a number of different people. I'm just outside Addles Ryan (ph) and wow, I've had some experience down on Bourbon Street. I wished I stayed. It is packed tonight. So to say that it's not jumping, I think, would be to misrepresent.

There is a lot of activity out here. Perhaps you can hear. (INAUDIBLE) any other time that you be here. And we talked to some people who said they're trying to weather it out. Other people are vacationers. They plan to disburse sometime tomorrow. They feel like they've got (INAUDIBLE) tomorrow and no one that we talk to here tonight so far seems to be in a panic mood.

HILL: So no one really worried, just hanging out on Bourbon Street, maybe drinking some hurricanes, as they wait for the hurricane. It seems...

FLOCK: Well, you know, if something here that they feel like -- some of the older folks that I've talked to who have weathered out Betsy in '65 say I will not stay again. I have seen Betsy '65 in New Orleans and I don't want to repeat performance of that.

But younger people don't ever remember a hurricane hitting New Orleans. All they remember is a lot of scare, a lot of times that they were told the storm was coming right for you, and it never has.

And so, some people just don't have the institutional memory to think about what this is like.

HILL: And part of that, you can understand. We know you've actually come to New Orleans. You've been heading west this whole time. What was the drive like, as you were heading in? Did you see some people in the areas east of New Orleans, who have also been advised to start evacuating? Did you see a lot of mass -- did you see a mass exodus basically?

FLOCK: Well, yes, it's funny. We talked to people. And they say that they typically always goes west in New Orleans when there's a hurricane. They don't think about going east, because you don't think about evacuating to Florida when there's a hurricane.

But this time, a lot of people did go east. And we saw fairly steady traffic on I-10 coming in, because we were coming in from the east. But they did, you know, do the reversible lanes on I-10 going the other way, going west of, in fact most people do exit out that way.

And if you think -- I talked to police (INAUDIBLE) on Bourbon Street says tomorrow, I think tomorrow we're going to really see people start to move, if the track doesn't move.

But they still think it is possible that we could get a last minute jog in this track.

HILL: Right.

FLOCK: And it won't come to New Orleans again.

HILL: Well, a lot of people hoping that it won't. We're hoping that whoever says that will get out regardless just in case. Jeff Flock, that means you, too. We appreciate it. Thanks.

FLOCK: Thanks.

HILL: Coming up at the top of the hour, we want to keep you updated here. We are expecting the latest storm update from the National Hurricane Center in Miami. We're going to bring that to you, including any changes in watches or warnings. So definitely stay with us for that.

All right, a key figure in the case against Michael Jackson may actually be heading back to court. This time, though, as a defendant. The woman whose son accused Jackson of child molestation has now been charged with welfare fraud.

Attorney Anne Bremner followed the Jackson trial from the beginning through his acquittal. She has been one of our regulars on this show. And she joins us tonight from Seattle to talk about this latest twist.

Great to have you with us, as always. First of all, some of these allegations actually came up in the Michael Jackson trial. So were you surprised to see charges filed?

ANNE BREMNER, ATTORNEY: I wasn't. And by the way, great to be with you and to be with you throughout this whole case. I wasn't, because there was a referral of the charges back when the jury was being selected in the Michael Jackson trial for perjury and welfare fraud, criminal charges against the accuser's mother.

And so, if those charges are referred, and there's some basis for those charges, then they should be filed.

HILL: And we should mention, too, that what she is charged with now, four felony counts of perjury by false application for aid, and then one count of aid by misrepresentation.

When this did come up in the trial, Anne, she basically refused to testify. She took the Fifth.

BREMNER: She did. And I was there that day. And think about this. She got up ready to testify, ready to take the oath, and took the Fifth on not just welfare fraud, but perjury.

And I almost felt like saying defense rests. I mean, it was so powerful for the defense that the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, that witness, the mother that basically you know drove the train with the children on board, as the defense described her as, you know, and all of them as con artists, actors, and liars, that she was driving the train. Kids were on board. And there was a train wreck that resulted in this acquittal.

When she got up and that happened, I thought to myself, you know, game over.

HILL: So really you do think that the mother and her trial as a con artist and an actor really helped lead to the defense winning the case?

BREMNER: It did. Remember what the jurors said afterwards. They talked about the mother. And they talked about that they didn't believe her. And the defense argued if you don't believe this family beyond a reasonable doubt, you must acquit. And the jury basically followed that argument and acquitted.

HILL: Real quickly before we let you go, there are some new legal issues for Michael Jackson. We can't let you go without asking about those, of course.

BREMNER: Yes.

HILL: A civil case in Louisiana.

BREMNER: Yes.

HILL: Anything going to stick here? What's going on with that?

BREMNER: Well, you know, it's so interesting. That's a case where there's repressed memory, but someone that was far older than we see with victims claiming repressed memory. But remember Michael Jackson was, you know, fined $10,000 for not responding to this case?

So this whole -- you know, dog him and follow him for a long time until he responds. And I think that Michael Jackson will answer to these kinds of cases for a long time. For the rest of his life, I don't know, but it's not over for him. It just isn't.

HILL: And that means we're not done talking with you about them.

BREMNER: No, we're not.

HILL: Even if we are for tonight, Anne, we know you'll be back. And we look forward to it.

BREMNER: I look forward to it.

HILL: Thanks, as always.

BREMNER: Thank you. HILL: Well, hurricanes -- back to our top story now -- we know can be dangerous wherever and whenever they strike. Coming up, though, we're going to take a look at why New Orleans is especially vulnerable to such storms.

Also, Martha Stewart getting ready to kick off her ankle bracelet, kick up her heels, and kick start a new TV show. You're watching CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Now a story you'll see only on CNN, most of us would agree that New Orleans is unique. Weather forecasters agree, but for entirely different reasons. Much of the city lies below sea level. And their worst fear is a direct hit from a major hurricane, because it would cause catastrophic flooding.

Here's CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): New Orleans is all about attitude, from its music to its streetcars and riverboats. It oozes charm. It's a city that moves a bit slower, saving its energy to party a little harder. It is also a city that flirts with disaster nearly every hurricane season.

WALTER MAESTRI, EMERGENCY MANAGER: It's going to happen. We can't continue to beat the odds. We've beaten the odds for a long, long time now.

ZARRELLA: Walter Maestri is the Jefferson Parish emergency manager. Of the 1.3 million people living in metropolitan New Orleans, he is responsible for nearly half a million, which during hurricane season leaves him with many sleepless nights. Maestri is keenly aware there is little he can do to keep people from falling victim to a natural disaster or to save his city. The possibilities play out in his mind over and over again.

MAESTRI: And very, very rapidly within a 10-hour period, you know, the metropolitan New Orleans area is totally devastated, gone.

ZARRELLA: Several expert studies and computer models show New Orleans even more vulnerable than anyone previously thought. Maestri says levees and flood walls designed to protect the city from moderately intense hurricanes might be overtopped and fail in just such storms.

MAESTRI: The way it's described, we describe it here as Lake Pontchartrain has now become Lake New Orleans.

ZARRELLA: In 1998, Hurricane George brushed New Orleans, going inland to the east and Mississippi. A fairly powerful storm, it was not on the order of Betsy, which in 1965, killed 61 people in New Orleans, flooded the city, and led to the construction of the flood walls. But had it struck, the death toll from George might have been horrific.

MAESTRI: Stop for a second. The greatest disaster that any of us have looked at in the United States was 9-11-2001, about 3,000 people died. Forty-four thousand if George makes the direct hit on New Orleans.

ZARRELLA: Maestri estimates most of the dead would be people who, for whatever reason, did not or could not evacuate, left trapped in the city as the water rises. The problem is population has mushroomed. Evacuation routes are limited. And New Orleans is like a bowl. The city sits below sea level. On three sides there's water: the Gulf of Mexico, Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River. Jackson Square, the cathedral, and just about everything else in New Orleans would be under water, 12 to 15 feet of it. In the storm's aftermath, water would sit in the city for an estimated six months. Pumps needed to get the water out would be themselves under water. And it would take up to 120 days to rebuild them. In this worst case scenario, Maestri's vision is chilling.

MAESTRI: While we're rebuilding the pumps, we're getting everybody who's still in here and who's alive out, and we're gathering the casualties, we're gathering the fatalities and getting them out of here.

ZARRELLA: Every building in the city, having been submerged to one degree or another, would have to be structurally analyzed. For months, no drinking water, no sewer system, and no electricity. There are ideas and some plans to save New Orleans from this doomsday vision. The levees and flood walls surrounding the city can be raised higher. That would cost billions of dollars and take years to complete. Another thought, wall off a portion of New Orleans. The area behind the barrier would include the government center and the French Quarter. For now, the only hope is to escape the city. Given the new studies, the evacuation order may come even for moderate hurricanes. It will take 72 hours to get 65 to 70 percent of the people out if everything goes smoothly.

MAESTRI: This is the one agency in government that not only is allowed to pray, it's demanded. We've got calluses on our knees in this business.

ZARRELLA: Divine intervention, good fortune, the whims of nature, whatever it is, it is all that separates this city on the Mississippi from Walter Maestri's nightmare.

John Zarrella, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: And a latest update from the National Hurricane Center just into CNN. For details on that, we turn now to meteorologist Jacqui Jeras in the CNN Weather Center -- Jacqui? JERAS: Hi, Erica. We're at 335 miles now away from the coast. The storm is in a strengthening cycle right now. We're expecting those winds to be moving up throughout the night. Right now, they're still holding at 115 miles per hour.

Here's the big change. Our hurricane watch has now changed to a hurricane warning. Hurricane warnings from Morgan City, extending over to the Florida, Alabama state line, including Lake Pontchartrain. Then hurricane watches and tropical storm warnings have been issued for intracoastal city over to Morgan City.

And then on the other side from the state line, all the way over to Destin. So this has been the most significant change.

Forecast track looks like it's still dead on. It doesn't look like we've seen much of a shift here. Our storm has turned west, northwest. Should continue to move in that direction, and then pull a little bit farther north late in the forecast period.

Looks like our timing is also going to come and stay. What we've been saying all day, we think sometime mid dayish on Monday, as a Category 4 storm, which means big, big trouble along the northern Gulf Coast.

If you're not taking this storm seriously, you need to. This is a very dangerous situation I hear from Max Mayfield tonight. In between that interview, Erica. And he said to me Jacqui, this is the real deal -- Erica?

HILL: Max Mayfield says it's the real deal, you don't want to mess with that.

JERAS: Exactly.

HILL: All right, thanks, Jacqui.

We're going to turn away from the hurricane for just a moment now to get you caught up with someone. In less than a week, domestic diva Martha Stewart will step out of her ankle bracelet and back into the limelight.

Stewart's comeback is highlighted by two new television series. One, a daily lifestyle show called "Martha." The other is a prime- time series, "The Apprentice: Martha Stewart." It's modeled after Donald Trump's hit series.

Christopher Byron has written a book about the Martha Stewart phenomenon, called "Martha, Inc." And earlier, I asked him just how much of the real Martha the public's going to get.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER BYRON, AUTHOR, MARTHA, INC.: For most of her career, we saw a branded packaged Martha Stewart that bore no relationship to the real Martha Stewart.

And when she got in trouble with the Congress and with the FBI and the SEC, the real Martha Stewart started to come into view.

I think what's going on now is a concerted effort on the part of Martha and her PR people to get that character back offstage and bring a new persona back on stage, a different, softer, gentler Martha Stewart, that kind of stuff.

HILL: Now you have known Martha Stewart for a number of years now.

BYRON: Probably close to 30, yes.

HILL: Close to 30. She -- you say she actually encouraged you to write the book, but the two of you aren't on speaking terms now. What happened?

BYRON: Yes, she did encourage me to write this book. But fairly early on in the process, she decided that this was not a story line she was going to be able to control. And at that point, decided that she no longer wanted me to write the book. As it happened, I had already signed a contract with a publisher and was obligated to write the book, whether she wanted to cooperate or not.

And she worked very hard to stop its publication, but failed at that.

HILL: Well, the book is out. And of course, you can still share some things with us. What do you think, based on the fact that you have known her for some 30 years, what do you think she learned during her time in prison and also during her time at her house arrest, which as we know, ends this week?

BYRON: I think she probably learned less than we think. And that's based in part on the fact that she managed to get her house arrest extended for three weeks by violating the terms of her house arrest to go spend some time in a local yoga facility up in Westchester County, where her home is.

And this in violation of the terms of her house arrest, but it didn't bother her. She wanted to do it.

Well, she got caught. And I think it was the same kind of thing that happened with respect to this insider trading issue in the first place. I see them as both being cut from the same kind of personality issue that she's had all along, which is I'm Martha Stewart. I am the brand. The brand is perfection. So I must be perfect.

HILL: Real quickly before we let you go, we have about 10 seconds, do you think that you and Martha Stewart will ever reconcile and talk again? You can ask her first hand about that time behind bars and with the ankle bracelet?

BYRON: Well, listen, she's got my phone number. And for Martha Stewart, I'll answer on the first ring. I'll doubt she'll take my call.

HILL: Well, if she does, you be sure to give us a call. BYRON: OK.

HILL: Christopher Byron, author of "Martha, Inc.", thanks for your time.

BYRON: My pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Up next, a check on the headlines for you. And then CNN PRESENTS: Dead Wrong, Inside an Intelligence Breakdown. We'll leave you tonight with your responses to our last call question on the doctor who told his patient she was too fat and a few other things. Did he go too far? Well, here's some of your thoughts. Thanks for being with us. Have a great night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: I don't think the doctor went too far. He was trying to help the woman by stating facts. The fact that the woman doesn't even want to be weighed when she goes to the doctor's office shows that she probably knows that she's at increased risk for a lot of things that he's telling her.

CALLER: No, I do not think the doctor went too far. I struggle with weight and have fluctuating in my weight. And I appreciate any health advice that the doctor could give me, to benefit me for a healthier life, a fitter life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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