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INSIDE AFRICA
Crisis in Zimbabwe
Aired June 28, 2008 - 12:30:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Free and fair, says the Zimbabwean government. An exercise in mass intimidation, says the opposition leader. Zimbabwe holds the presidential runoff in the face of international condemnation, and their charges that many voters were forced to the polls.
I'm Isha Sesay, welcome to the special edition of INSIDE AFRICA, "Crisis in Zimbabwe." Leaders around the world are calling Zimbabwe`s presidential runoff a sham. Voters went to the polls in relatively small numbers, according to most reports out of Zimbabwe. But the state-run newspaper is reporting a massive turnout. It's important to know that CNN and most western news organizations are barred from the country, while the opposition says many Zimbabweans who went to the polls were forced to cast ballots for the ruling Zanu-PF party.
The outcome had been predetermined. The Movement for Democratic Change leader Morgan Tsvangirai withdrew from the race several days ago, saying state-sponsored violence would make a fair election impossible. The Mugabe government denies orchestrating a campaign of violence and says its own supporters had been targeted by the MDC.
We'll be hearing from MDC and Zanu-PF in a few moments, but first, we want to get the latest on what's happening inside Zimbabwe from a journalist in Harare. Idan Wetherel, editor of the Zimbabwean independent newspaper, joins us on the phone from Harare. Idan, thanks for being with us. Describe for us, if you would, what conditions are like in Zimbabwe right now.
IDAN WETHEREL, JOURNALIST: Well, (inaudible) obviously -- there will be, the ruling party will be checking to see where the people voted, and if they voted, which party they voted for. So there's a measure of apprehension.
Mugabe has to do more than just show that he had a large turnout, which the state newspapers have been reporting, in his rural fiefdom. He has to show multidimensional support, in other words support within the cities as well.
It was a very low turnout in the cities, and no enthusiasm for the elections, obviously, given the fact that the cities are strongholds of the opposition, MDC.
SESAY: Idan, the reports of violence continue to come in to us. What are you hearing on that front? And what can you tell us about the mood and the tension in Zimbabwe?
WETHEREL: Well, as I said, the mood is one of the apprehension and concern about the consequences, what's starting to happen now. Now, he will obviously -- President Mugabe will claim a very big victory, and he will be going to Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt for conference, summit of African Leaders, where he will be persuaded to sit down with the opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, and open the national dialogue. I don't know whether he's going to do that or whether he's in any mood for that. But certainly, there is a gradual increase in the international pressure on him to respond positively. And of course, enormous skepticism about this election. Nobody could have described this as free and fair.
SESAY: OK. Idan Wetherel, editor of the Zimbabwean independent newspaper, thanks for joining us.
Well, as we've been reporting, the Movement for Democratic Change candidate Morgan Tsvangirai pulled out of the presidential runoff several days ago, citing political violence against his supporters, and he himself has been holed up at the Dutch embassy. Joining us now by phone from Harare is Tsvangirai's second in command, MDC Secretary General Tendai Biti, who is himself facing treason charges.
Mr. Biti, thank you so much for joining us on the line today. What is MDC's next move now that this runoff election has been held?
TENDAI BITI, MDC SECRETARY GENERAL: Well, I think -- I think the priority at the present moment is, of course, the humanitarian crisis and the people that are (inaudible) -- the people that are still homeless, the people that (inaudible).
I think it's critical that the violence stops, it's critical that the various Zanu-PF (inaudible). I think that's the future priority (inaudible) the resolution of the political question. By (inaudible) moving forward, I think it's important that all the international community, the Africans who are meeting tomorrow (inaudible), the leaders of the SATS (ph), of the U.N. recognize what's (inaudible) was all about, namely a farce by a regime that is determined to reproduce (ph) itself legally and extra legally, so that is critical. And secondly, to recognize that we had an election on the 29th of March 2008 (inaudible) no one is telling (ph).
And thirdly, there is a way forward to -- it is important for the U.N. and the African Union to craft some conditional arrangement that will leave to a new free and fair presidential election. In other words, finish the business of the runoff, it has to be concluded.
Whatever conception you have (inaudible) the people spoke on the 29th of March, 2008. And also, the sanctions (ph) of that transitional authority, if you like, must be to attend to the urgent issues of constitutional reform, and of course the economic and humanitarian crisis (inaudible).
SESAY: And Mr. Biti, just to jump in there -- would the MDC willing to enter into a government of national unity, a transitional government that would include Robert Mugabe?
BITI: Well, I mean that -- it's transitional authority, it's fundamentally different from the government of national unity. And we make it very clear that if there was to be a chance of any government of national unity, as we call it, it should be (inaudible) before the 27th of June, 2008, and we argued before as well (inaudible) the farcical runoff, then (inaudible) that's what calling (ph) it.
So a government of national unity, as far as we are concerned, is history. But what is now the only logical option is a transitional authority that (inaudible) to a proper election maybe in six months, maybe in one year, maybe in two years. And the key function and the key issues will be constitutional reform, economic rehabilitation, and, of course, a free and fair election under international solidarity and international supervision.
SESAY: All right. Tendai Biti, Secretary General of the Movement for Democratic Change. Though we must leave it, many thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Coming up, we'll get the government's response to the MDC's accusations. And still ahead, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Jendayi Frazer joins us to talk about the mediation process for Zimbabwe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SESAY: Welcome back to the special edition of INSIDE AFRICA, crisis in Zimbabwe. The Zimbabwean government says the presidential runoff was free and fair, and President Robert Mugabe has suggested his neighbors dare not question its legitimacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MUGABE, ZIMBABWEAN PRESIDENT: I want to see (inaudible) point your finger at us and say we have done wrong. I will want to see that finger and see whether it is clean or dirty. (inaudible) Africa, in the African Union, I'll want to see that finger. Let it be pointed at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Joining us by phone from Harare to discuss the vote is Zimbabwe's Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga . Mr. Matonga, thank you so much for joining us. Given widespread reports of low voter turnout, how does Zanu-PF explain its claims that these elections were indeed credible?
BRIGHT MATONGA, ZIMBABWEAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: The elections (inaudible) -- we expected that we'll get the results sometime later on this evening Zimbabwean time, and that's (inaudible) whether there was voter apathy. I don't think so. There's going to be a resounding victory for Zanu-PF, a resounding victory for President Mugabe. This is what I expect, this is what I suspect. And we're really looking forward to this result.
SESAY: Mr. Matonga, there are talks of sanctions, people considering whether or not to isolate any government that would be emerged from this runoff result. How would the government of Zimbabwe respond?
MATONGA: I think the United States government and the British government should not see Zimbabwe as an enemy. They should treat Zimbabwe as a partner because of what we can offer to the world because of our stability, because of our education, because of our resources, our mineral resources. This is how they should see Zimbabwe. They will not succeed if they will try and bully Zimbabwe and install a puppet regime. That we will not allow. That is not going to happen in Zimbabwe.
They need to respect Zimbabwe. We're not here (inaudible). I think it won't help because in Africa, it's really something that we don't expect to hear from people like Jindayi Frazer. She should know better.
SESAY: People have hinted at possible power sharing talks. President Mugabe himself said after this vote, he may be willing to enter into such negotiations. What more can you tell us about that, and what kind of timeframe will be looking at?
MATONGA: Is the MDC are a ruling -- (inaudible) Zimbabwean opposition party -- they should behave like Zimbabweans. We will sit down and talk with them as long as they are not being -- they're not pushing a British agenda or an American agenda. They've got to behave like Zimbabweans. Then we can sit down, as long as they don't push the Zimbabwe agenda, then we (inaudible) this problem, but whatever (inaudible) obviously, we need to sit down and, you know, to make the way forward for the country and for the good of everybody.
SESAY: All right. Bright Matonga, deputy information minister of Zimbabwe. Thank you for joining us.
The pressure is mounting on South African President Thabo Mbeki to take a tougher line with the Mugabe government. Up next, Nkepile Mabuse will join us from Johannesburg, where millions of Zimbabweans now reside.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making business news in Africa this week. Mining giant Anglo-American says it is reviewing all options regarding the development of a $400 million platinum mine in Zimbabwe. The London-based company has received harsh criticism for plans to move ahead with the project, believed to be the largest investment in Zimbabwe to date. Anglo-American says its operations in Zimbabwe comply with all local and international laws.
Barclay's Bank and British American Tobacco are also in the spotlight for business dealings in Zimbabwe. In a statement, Barclay's spokesperson said the bank is compliant with all E.U. sanctions regarding Zimbabwe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: You are watching a special edition of INSIDE AFRICA, "Crisis in Zimbabwe." Welcome back.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is calling Zimbabwe's presidential runoff a sham and says the United States will use its position as president of the U.N. Security Council to pursue tougher sanctions against the Mugabe government. The runoff coincided with the concert in London's Hyde Park marking the 90th birthday of former South African President Nelson Mandela. A day earlier, Mandela made his first public comments about the crisis, which he described as, quote, "a tragic failure of leadership in Zimbabwe"
At an emergency meeting earlier in the week, the Southern African Development Community, which includes South Africa, called on Zimbabwe to postpone the runoff. Now SADC is under increasing pressure to help solve the crisis.
For more on the mood in South Africa and mounting pressure on the South African President Thabo Mbeki, we turn to our very own Nkepile Mabuse, who is in our Johannesburg bureau. And Nkepile, do we know what the focus is of South African diplomatic efforts now that the runoff elections has been held?
NKEPILE MABUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Mbeki of South Africa is still pushing for some kind of negotiated settlement. And although the ruling party, the ANC, his party here in South Africa has been very outspoken and very forthright, condemning what's happening, the ongoing violence in that country, he has kept his silence, and of course, many have criticized him for this. President -- I mean, the president of the ANC, Jacob Zuma, recently had these words to say about what's happening in Zimbabwe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACOB ZUMA, ANC PRESIDENT: Countries ill treat their citizens, and their citizens would do a number of things, and it will impact on the neighbors. And I don't think we want that situation. That's why we're calling for a political arrangement that must help solve the situation in Zimbabwe for the good of all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MABUSE: Now, Thabo Mbeki has sent mediators, who we believe are still in Zimbabwe trying to speak to both parties, trying to speak to Robert Mugabe's Zanu-PF and the opposition, MDC.
Now, the opposition, MDC, had said it wanted to have these talks happen before the June 27th runoff. Now they're saying that the June 27th runoff is illegitimate, and they're not going to recognize Robert Mugabe as president. So, obviously, a lot of pressure has yet to be brought to bear for these two parties to at least agree to start talking right now about the way forward. Specifically, Morgan Tsvangirai and Robert Mugabe to get together, and as the African Union meets on Monday, the spotlight will be on these leaders to take firm action to make sure that the crisis in Zimbabwe is resolved.
SESAY: All right. Nkepile Mabuse joining us from our Johannesburg bureau to give us the South African government's prospective on the crisis in Zimbabwe. Many thanks.
Well, the U.S. President George W. Bush is calling for fresh U.N. sanctions against the Mugabe government, possibly including an arms embargo and asset freezes. Let's get more on the U.S. position now from assistant secretary of state for African affairs, Jendayi Frazer. She joins us now by phone from Washington.
Thank you so much for joining us, Ms. Frazer. The Kenyans -- Kenyan government's foreign minister is already saying that sanctions against Zimbabwe are unlikely to work, they're likely to make the government just dig in deeper. Has he got a point?
JENDAYI FRAZER, U.S. ASST. SECY. OF STATE: Well, I don't -- I think that that is one prospective, but it's very clear that this is a government that has already dug in, that has disregarded the will of the Zimbabwean people, that does not believe in the rule of law, given how they're beating their own citizens and forcing them to go out and vote in a sham election.
And so, I'm not concerned about the government of Zimbabwe digging in. They're dug in.
The issue is that we need to speak as one unified international community and bring pressure to bear on those members of the government that do not want to continue to see the decline and deterioration of the economy and the division of the society. And so, we do believe, and President Bush has announced that we're going to pursue more stringent sanctions against the government, and an arms embargo in the context of the violence in Zimbabwe is clearly understood as the people of South Africa themselves stopped the ship from coming to their port, because everyone in the region understood that it is wrong to send arms into a government that will so readily beat its own population.
SESAY: Jendayi Frazer, in reality, when it comes to the issue of sanctions imposed by the U.N. Security Council, what are the chances of actually achieving that, given that up until this point, South Africa's resisted such a move?
FRAZER: Well, South Africa has joined the consensus in the past, when we did the presidential statement that acknowledged the violence, that acknowledged that a runoff election would be illegitimate. They were part of that consensus. South Africa doesn't have a veto on the council, and we would expect in the Security Council resolution to give the number of votes necessary to be able to move forward, multilateral sanctions. I think most people in the world understand today that more stringent action is needed against this government.
SESAY: There is a sense that South Africa would be able to -- to use its influence with countries like Russia and China to certainly make attaining any kind of meaningful sanctions difficult.
FRAZER: It is true that South Africa may attempt to -- I'm not sure that it would, but it may attempt to get Russia and China to join with it against sanctions. But again, I doubt very seriously that either Russia or China would want to use a veto against sanctions on a regime that is widely condemned and an election that even the African Union and the Southern African Development Community said would not be legitimate. The outcome of such an election could not be legitimate.
SESAY: Let me ask you this, Jendayi Frazer. There has been a lot of talk about action on Zimbabwe, a lot of talk, but, you know, little has changed on the ground. The people continue to suffer, and the people increasingly, as you read editorials out of Zimbabwe, are feeling that they have been abandoned. Is Zimbabwe, is it ultimately going to be another stain on the consciences of world leaders?
FRAZER: Not on world leaders. I think that world leaders like President Bush, and I think many in the region have really spoken out for the people of Zimbabwe, and it is a shame -- as President Bush said in his statement today, once we get a government that is democratically elected and expresses the will of the people, the United States is prepared to provide development assistance, or provide to work on debt relief, or prepare to try to normalize Zimbabwe's relations with international financial institutions, which they owe $1.4 billion.
And so, clearly, there is two paths here. One is the one in which opposition are jailed, the person who is out on bail, Tendai Biti, a $1 trillion bail because of hyper inflation. It's an outrageous situation of a government that starves its people by not allowing international aid to get in to them. That's one path.
The other path is let's move toward the recovery of this economy, let's move towards restoring the reputation of Zimbabwe and the rule of law in Zimbabwe. And that's the path that I hope we will be able to achieve through collective international action. And certainly at the African Union, we would expect this issue to be discussed and taken very seriously.
SESAY: All right. Jendayi Frazer. Unfortunately, we're out of time, there we must leave it. Jendayi Frazer, U.S. assistant secretary of state for African affairs, many thanks.
We will be right back with more of INSIDE AFRICA "Crisis in Zimbabwe".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SESAY: Welcome back to this special edition of INSIDE AFRICA "Crisis in Zimbabwe." Despite the widespread international condemnation, Robert Mugabe went ahead and held his one-man runoff in Zimbabwe. He's guaranteed a win, and with that his nearly three decade-long rule of Zimbabwe will continue. Where all this leaves Morgan Tsvangirai and his opposition party, who accuse Zanu-PF of killing, injuring and displacing their supporters in the run-up to this vote? And will the U.N. Security Council be able to reach consensus to impose sanctions, given the resistance of Zimbabwe's neighbor, South Africa, who are likely to use their influence with countries like Russia and China? All the while, Zimbabwe's political future hangs in the balance, and the suffering of its people goes on.
Our Web site contains a special section devoted to Zimbabwe. Just go to cnn.com/Zimbabwe to learn more about the crisis, including opposition allegations of torture by ruling party supporters.
And there, we must leave this week's show. I'll be back with another edition of INSIDE AFRICA next week. We leave you now with some of the sights from a tumultuous week in Zimbabwe. Thank you for watching.
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